orkut.com cont

yes
05/20/2005 03:47
Yes i agree on many of the points made by you,cant say if that was the right way for companies to go and what will happen in near future that no one can guess. I too wish the next steps by India Inc to be more bold,...what i wanted to know was from followers of NRN,but i dont think you are one of followers of NRN so i shouldn keep on putting more arguments on this topic,we can discuss on other topics but not under this topic


Sujoy

i was talking abt that only
05/20/2005 04:20
i too believe it goes with economy thats why i talked about pride and 90s and vision and nothing i talked about was technical.
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Sujoy

i too
05/20/2005 04:26
i too believe in the economy and business laws and brand very much but not on that under this topic

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Comparision?
05/19/2005 22:55
Atleast you agreed comparision has to be made.Now i compared two technology companies but you are comparing a technology company with a food chain,I compared it with Oracle as both are tech companies and mainly because both started at the same time.Let me tell you the business Accenture is doing in India does not even contribute 1% of its revenue, its not fear of Infy which brought it here.Rather Infy made people believe outsourced work can cheaply done in India,which is of quite inferior quality.ITS NOT ABOUT ME OR SOMEONE ELSE JOINING A COMPANY,I WROTE MY EXPERIENCES JUST TO ADD A INSIDER'S VIEW TO THE WHOLE SITUATION.AND I AM TALKING WHY IS NRN BEING PROJECTED AS A GREAT PERSON when i dont see a reason to it.I mentioned it in the beginning i am talking on a broader perspective which is from the point of view of company and country as well, but to make points which only a person who has worked in that company knows i added my personal experiences at work.I dont want to deviate from the topic, let me again put it that way,the brand Infosys has created in INDIAN SHARE MARKET may be good but the image it has created of India and if you call him 'Face of Indian Software Industry' is pathetic.
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Sujoy

cont..
05/19/2005 23:39
let me elaborate my point,McDonalds is great as his business idea created a big brand which itself is associated with quality and because of which he can charge a premium.Infosys, which could use great resources(technical manpower) india has to create services/products which can brand themselves as best in the world,but what it chose to do was just outsourcing a small part of projects,the two disadvantages are1)the work it does will not be recognized by the end customer-let me tell you how,like in my project where Fidelity was shifing to a Oracle product,here Fidelity was outsourcing some part of the work to Infy,but do think the end customer of Fidelity will know it ever. Most of the cases it cannot even claim it is doing that work because it is doing it in behalf of some other company,so it is 3rd party outsourcing,where the last point in outsourcing does not even provide any specialized services.2)It creates a image that only this kind of work can be done here(India) and it affects not only the company but the country also.

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even then
05/19/2005 05:08
Look Vishal the title "I hate" was only to grab attention,nothing to do with my feelings,i know being a part of Solution is always the best thing. Criticism may be wrong but what i want to point out is media has created picture which is not true.And now following your style i would like to tell why i chose to think the other way1)Making some one a board of member:many politicians are also board of members of many Universities and you heard them being conferred degrees and all everyday,and the reason is it helps them(univ.) to have people from corporate world for usual reasons.If you dont have anything then you have to settle with whatever you have but that never means THAT IS THE BEST.OR DO YOU WANT TO SAY WE CHOOSE OUR BUSINESS LEADERS THE SAME WAY AS WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICAL LEADERS?2)Heading a nation also does not mean the person is great forget about heading a company or a institution.It depends on why he is choosen,if it is a democracy he is there because more choose to vote for him than those against him.3)Many might have failed but that does not make Narayan Murthy great,with whom are you comparing him???There is no absolute standard it has to be a relative one.4)tell me which vision are u talking about?i heard him telling he wants every employee and his family to feel great about the company,which is never the case.5)BPO is a term defined as Business process outsourcing and that is what Infy does for majority of its clients,around 40% of its revenue comes from maintaining transactions of Goldman Saccs.I myself have just updated 1000 rows of a table for Fidelity and it is the same job which i saw a hutch call center person doing,but she was doing for people like us in India,i did it for people in US.6)And this is what made me feel ashamed,just doing backend work for people in US.7)And let me tell you there are many companies which have grown and are bigger than Infy also and yes 90s supported it,what did he(NRN) do for it?this point u also agreed.
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Sujoy

continued
05/19/2005 06:26
The point i want to drive home is just because some person has said something good about him does not make him great.By giving so many references you are challenging your intellectual capability,ATLEAST ALL THE POINTS I GAVE WERE FROM WHAT I HAVE EXPERIENCED and the reason why i want to discuss it here is i want to know if i am missing something.Had i thought i am great or something like that i would never have cared to post it here,Just tell me do you agree or not that Narayan Murthy COMPROMISED when he was looking for projects,he agreed to do the crap work.And it is a compromise on everything even the credit the work gets,i was in Oracle APPS project,the software we were using was made by Oracle,it was mostly implemented by Fidelity,now where do u see the role of such big company like Infosys???Tell me i am waiting for your reply

view published in Infosys BBSR magazine:HORIZON

-----Original Message-----
From: Sujoy Neogi
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 9:56 AM
To: horizon
Subject: Entry for Horizon Jan 2005
Meri Awaz Suno,KBC and now The Indian Idol - Will the Jassis and the Bahus fade into oblivion?
Why is Indian Idol more successful than SaReGaMa? Definitely SaReGaMa is superior in terms of quality of singers and parameters on which they are judged (People dont mind PJs by Anu Mallik and forced brand endorsements of Nokia). Why?the answer is it feeds on the voyeuristic characters of audience. The viewer feels superior when he finds himself in a position where he can decide future of the participant and comment on him, the same superiority one felt when he watched KBC and found that he could answer questions which someone winning 25 lakhs could not.
The same theory can be applied to serials like Jassi and KSBKBT, there are serials with better ideas and content,but the TRPs of a serial goes high only when it shows the rivalry between two women or families, something which the middle class women closely relates with. Remember the excitement associated with Indian Idol participants going out each week is same the audience, had when it waited for return of Mihir in KSBKBT. Saans & Bahu and Indian Idol will continue to rule the Idiot Box as long as people watch TV to have something to talk about, have a feeling that they can control life of other people and enjoy watching Rahul Saxena crying when he goes out of Indian Idol.

SUJOY NEOGI

article published in Renaissance

" Research should not be the main focus of IITs!!"
-Sujoy Neogi

The IITs have succeeded in producing best undergraduates in the world .The reason is the rigorous entrance exam each applicant has to go through which in turn ensures only the best of the best can survive. The fact that many of them have gone abroad and established themselves as entrepreneurs has benefited the IITs immensely either in terms of their contributions or the enhanced image of IITs in the world.The IITians have contributed to the Indian software industry but India holds an advantage in services sector which it does not have in manufacturing sector, not even in computer hardware. The same success is difficult to replicate in case of M.Techs and PhDs as was done in case of undergraduates because of the structure of Indian industry which does not produce technologically innovative products and does not focus much on R&D and the number of foreign companies outsourcing their R&D is far too less. Further those students only, who don’t have any other option accept the dual courses offered by IITs. The idea to retain students for high level research won’t be that rewarding as only some of the students would be willing to devote their life to research. It must not be forgotten that IITs offer best international placements and that is what attracts host of the students. The high quality research work without the backing of equally advanced companies would be useless and unfortunately India does not have pioneers in industry leave alone Biotech-Pharmaceuticals. The IITs should instead increase their student strengths in B.Tech courses as the number is too small for a country as big as India and more importantly many students who are not absorbed into IITs are more or less equally competent as their fellow IITians are. Further in a world where the future lies in free trade why not import IITians when the Indian companies cannot retain them! Why start new kinds of protectionism by forcibly retaining the IITians making them do research in India. Just imagine what Vinod Khosla would have been had he stayed in India and what IITD would be without his $5 million contribution. In today’s world any measure to control the aspirations of people would be a Ruthless measure and same is the case with the great IITians.

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Not about joining it or not
05/17/2005 06:28
Yes the "pride" word came from articles written about Murthy itself and my opinion is never related to anyone working for Infosys,it has nothing to do with Infoscions at all it is only about NARAYAN MURTHY,and i left Infy 2 months ago.Anupam,about pride of India,let me give you a example,when u look at good cars you talk of Toyota,Suzuki and Honda which makes Japan look like a great nation because it produced so good companies which took the market share from the Detroit assembly line makers,u know u hear a lot about Ford and GM these days.Right and when u talk PRIDE of country u see it is more linked now a days with the economies look even Condolizza Rice when she came to india talked about Boeing getting the Air India contract same was the case with EU or French foreign minister favoring AIRBUS.Yes now a days companies and ecomony make the country,but when it comes to India why do we hear about outsourcing back office work ,when in US the same Indians are producing the most advanced cutting edge technology.So i link national pride that way to work and ANUPAM believe me, need creates new opportunities, if u can open a new company why do u want others and at that too IITians to depend on others for job,and if NRMurthy is good only because of charity then look at the statistics it takes money from its employees and then it gives back for publicity,u know any Infoscion is billed at average 7000 USD per month and gets only 240 USD this is not giving money which requires BIG HEART as u said.and Shirish what i am talking about is the hype over Infy, got it, it is bad than it is projected in media,i never talked about its HR policies.I AM TALKING ABOUT THE ENLARGED PICTURE OF INFY IN MEDIA and the reality and people giving him(NRN) respect which he does not deserve.and yes i like this discussion a lot and i invite u to speak why he should be given a status just because media thinks it so.And i didn get Second world war favoring SONY,second world war ruined Japan right???

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I HATE HIM - Narayan Murthy
05/17/2005 01:16
You all love Narayan Murthy because the media paints it that way,but staying in Infosys for 10 months made me realise what the reality is:1)Vision is what Narayan Murthy lacks,come on just outsourcing crap work from other companies is no business acumen.2)The work Infy does is of very low technical quality it is just a bit higher level than that of BPOs or Call Centers.3)The rise of Infy is just because the 90s supported outsourcing and got nothing to do with Infosys strategy,remember it started in 81 but was nothing till 934)Look at Oracle it started in 77 and is 11 times bigger and 1000 times technically superior than Infosys,and Infosys just implements the products made by Oracle.5)What Nike is to a roadside cobbler that is Oracle is to Infosys6)Talk about ethics ,Infosys has a Ontime policy for all employees but for teams in customer support's Narayan Murthy's ethics die,i used to work from 2 to 12 where did his ethics go, inspite of several requests7)Infosys is the best place to spoil one's career with work on WORD and EXCEL8)You cannot compare him to leaders like Akio Morita of SONY who did everything for his country ,if u have read "MADE IN JAPAN" you will realise the harm Infosys had done to Indian software industry9)What Infosys has done is created a image of India which shows low end outsourcing work is what can be done here.10)Any sane person in place of Narayan Murthy would have employed simple B.Sc people for the position they call as Software Engineer,it is derogatory for engineers to work in Infosys11)Had he ever thought about India's pride he would have never agreed to play second fiddle to big companies12)It is very good in marketing itself in Media which is required as it creates ripples in SENSEX and the stock market13)All his values and vision are just for showing which bring shame to people like me who dream of INDIA being the leader in technology.i respect companies like Ramco,IFlex,MoserBaer which did somethingto bring pride to MADE IN INDIA brand
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Sujoy

Reply to me
05/17/2005 01:11
Come on all you all you 92 lovers of Narayan Murthy,tell me do you love him just because you hear good things about him.I can agree Patni or TCS started long back so they can be called pioneers,but in no way Infosys is anything which did good to India,everyone calls him Man of Values.What are his values just earning MONEY ,Infy gets 50 million from clients like like Fidelity and AETNA and it is just maintaining their systems,where is the pride???Even a pimp gets money, he too can be rich,he too can donate to poor people,why dont we call a pimp a great man with ethics?If the work and the pride the work wins is criteria Narayan Murthy is as poor as a cobbler just maintaining weared out shoes when he can use his imagination and create new designs.Even if they thought of providing Services they could have been more like Accenture which provides consultancy.Look what Infosys did,it has attracted companies like IBM and Accenture to do low level work in India,this is the harm done by Infosys.Had he created a image of India where clients would have come for specialised services he could have charged premium and the brand name too would have value in Industry not just in stock exchange.i joined Infosys as i wanted to join a Indian company and develop software,but the fact is Infosys doesnot develop software for Foreign clients it just migrates from old version to new version or from one product to another more than 80% of the time.This is what is the real picture of Indian giant Infosys.